94: The Power Of A Single Decision, with Anya Caister

94: The Power of a Single Decision

(main interview only, does not include the intro and wrap-up)

Joan: Well, welcome Anya.

Anya: Thank you. How's it going? Nice to see you again.

Joan: Great to see you too. Well, when you're not traveling the world, what type of work are you doing in the UK?

Anya: I do a variety of work. I think I'm one of those people that enjoys like a new shiny thing element, like quite project based. So I have what I, what I describe as my like full time income is, project management in technology, a bit of product management as well. Predominantly in SaaS products.

So, I would normally do that 9-5, typically for a couple of months, or for 6 months, depending on the project,

Joan: That's all contract work then. So you're self employed.

Anya: Exactly, yeah.

and so when I'm not doing that, and when I'm kind of,

I also have a photography business, which I started about five years ago, just under five years ago, and that encompasses commercial photography, personal photography. I also use it as a base for my tech work as well. So the business encompasses both photography and consulting. and I also do some acting or acting.

I should put an inverted commas because it's more like background work. I just kind of like move behind real actors and, you know, get paid for that. So

Joan: Oh, fun. And everything that you said is that variety theme that you like.

Anya: I think it kind of happened accidentally. was never one to have more than one job before on fashion at the time. and I was also never one of those people that knew what they wanted to do when they were younger, so I never had this, like, career path, per se, to follow. so it's kind of just happened that way, and I'm really, really pleased it has, but, it wasn't really part of the plan.

Joan: You mentioned the photography about five years ago as, as a side hustle. How did that come about?

Anya: It’s quite the story actually, and I consider it to be quite naff. But some people like it and I do enjoy telling it because it's really sincere and really honest. Up until the age of 26, I was a complete amateur at photography. I, I enjoyed having a camera, I always had one.

I annoyed every single friend, my life by always snapping away at their, um, best selves and not so best selves, um, but, they have me to thank for their memories,

Joan: Yes.

Anya: regrets. and, and then I, I basically, I never really thought about taking it seriously. I never really was molded that way, I'd say, growing up, to feel like it was an option for me.

I was currently working for a business that was, um, heavy in financial and compliance and the clientele were very intense, very serious. It was a very stressful job as, as they go, I would say I've had quite a lot of jobs and it was a very stressful one.

It really drew me to leave. Like I was planning to go away anyway, but it was really just encouraging everybody to leave. Bone in my body to jump on the plane.

Joan: I can't get there soon enough. Yeah.

Anya: Every night I go home and like plan where I wanted to go and like read up about a city or something.

And, it just, it, I was a complete slave to the system in other words, so I quit my job. I went on this incredible journey for one year around Central and South America.

Joan: One year.

Anya: One whole year.

Joan: Wow.

Anya: I, saved everything.

I didn't go out with my friends. I barely spent anything on food. I was so, I was like a student again, and I just saved everything I had and went on this trip. Some people buy a house. I went away.

Joan: Yeah.

Anya: and, it was phenomenal, but I basically, I got halfway around and in Chile, in the north of Chile, there's a place called San Pedro de Atacama and it's basically a enormous desert, as you know, you've been, and it apparently rains about four days a year at this place.

So, uh, I arrive and, um, it is chucking it down, um, and so we have about five, four or five days there, so I'm like, oh, it's fine, we'll just, you know, And just see what, what happens with the weather. And then we can go out and see it. Cause at that point, everything was flooded. You couldn't, you couldn't leave.

Joan: It's very desert like.

Anya: Very desert like and as you know, the landscape and, agriculture there is just, it's so unique and exquisite, but we couldn't see any of it because we were all reined in. Clouds everywhere,

Joan: That's crazy.

Anya: Mental, so we, well, we're completely rained in for the whole five days that I'm there and so I can't go out and see anything and um, there are a few people there, everyone's kind of like coming and going, some people have a bit of sickness and they're not really up for chatting, so there's a lot of alone time at this hostel and with the rain and gazebo and everything you just find yourself like staring into the floor and staring and thinking about.

Joan: Yeah.

Anya: And I found myself thinking, what am I going to do when I go back? I don't want to go back to the same job. I hate that I am on such a low salary and I work really hard. And I don't want to be a slave to this kind of thing anymore. And then I just thought, but I don't know how to do anything else. I've never done anything else.

And, anyway, a few glasses of wine later and solo thoughts. Um,

Joan: Chile is known for its wine.

Anya: It was, it was honestly amazing. I was bouncing off a few people before this, and we were talking about like, salaries and jobs and what we consider to be a good job. There's a really kind, nice couple there from the UK who are also kind of reflecting and deciding what they were going to do when they're going back.

So we were all bouncing off each other. And then I had about six hours one day where I just sat under this gazebo with a bottle of white wine and just like, was just thinking, just as you do when you have nothing to do, I was just thinking. Um, and I just thought, why don't I do photography? I love it. I, I am obsessed with taking pictures.

I love being behind the camera. Yeah. It annoys me that I don't know how to use a camera properly. So I was like, I could learn how to use a camera and then I could be a photographer. And then I was like, no, I can't. That's insane. And then the more wine I drank, I was like, yes, I can, I can do it. This is, this is definitely within reach.

And so I became obsessed when you get a good idea, you, you just become obsessed with it, don't you? And. I sat there for hours looking up courses I could do, cameras I wanted to buy. I messaged a bunch of teachers and said, Hiya, I really want to get this. I don't really have much confidence. I'm a complete amateur.

Um, what would be your advice? And just kind of did the research, put the work in

Joan: It sounds like suddenly you were on fire.

Anya: I can't explain it, Joan. It was like something just clicked. It was a proper light bulb moment. And I felt really happy. I felt really like, Um, energized from it. And it felt like a, in the same way that it was like very clear to me that I wanted to go away traveling when you have that light bulb moment, like, yes, this is something that I definitely want to do.

In the same way, when you meet someone that you get on with, like, I really like this person. felt that way. I was like, yes, this is, this is certainly something I want to do. And I wanted to explore anyway. And I didn't really tell anyone about it. And, um, would. promote that if you can, because people do tend to, you know, talk you out of things that are a risk.

And, and so I didn't really share this with many people. And fast forward five months, I went to, I went back to London. And I, uh, by the way, I didn't get to see anything in Chile, in the Chilean desert. So I do need, I do need to go back one day and see what they have to offer. But, was just gazebos and wine for now.

Joan: And in that evening served its purpose.

Anya: Oh, a great place. Yeah, it serves a great purpose. Exactly. And I went home and enrolled at the London School of Photography in a professional certificate course. It was a year long, but I did a condensed version of it, two, six months. And I was able, I ended up finding a job, really great job actually, um, product management.

That allowed me to have every Wednesday off so that I could take this course alongside my full time work. Um, so I work compressed hours, uh, by that I mean I worked a full week within four days. Um, it was just when like I saw that flexible working was coming into play and it was a really great setup for me.

Joan: And it sounds like you were so driven with this idea that it wasn't a matter of, can I do it or not? The, the, the question, the shift in the mindset becomes, how can I, how can I fit it in? Yeah.

Anya: Totally, and the procrastination, I think, was disguised as not even considering it to be an option, um, in the years leading up to, because, yeah, I would say that I am quite driven, I'm quite determined, um, I do have quite a lot of tenacity when it comes to something that I want to do. And it's difficult and that there are obstacles.

I would say that I'm, I'm blessed with that bite, you know, you perhaps need. And I also just don't care what people think. And I don't care if I mess it up or fail. I don't care if I fall over.

Joan: That’s a great trait to have. Yeah. And it was after all those years of thinking about it, that there was that moment where you made that decision that I'm going to do this, and then that's a whole different mindset. The old way is procrastination and fear and, you know, Not deciding, just staying where you are, which of course is unconscious decision is in itself.

Anya: Yeah,

Joan: Something clicked and you thought, I got to do this.

Anya: exactly. And it was a real means to an end because it was, I had an end goal. I wanted to be a photographer. So this was like, something I had to do before I could even consider working as a photographer. So it was like, I can go to this institution and I can learn how to use a camera. I can do that.

I can buy a camera and I can go to this wonderful place with these great teachers. And learn everything I can about this camera and how to use it.

Joan: Yes, because you had to go through that course that you did the accelerated version. But that, all that learning and education then would have built up your confidence to then basically put your shingle up to go out and get some jobs. In the photography world, yeah.

Anya: I chose this course, because of the a) the repertoire b) the caliber of the teachers. Um, really liked their work. That was a big part of the, attraction, but also you just got to build up this incredible portfolio that enabled you to then take it seriously. And there was a whole section on how to start a business, um, how to, you know, approach clients, how to behave, how to, all of the kind of niceties and the nuances that you do in your job that you kind of learn on the job.

They taught you in this. So I've been programmed to work in an office. I can do the water cooler chat. I can do the coffee run. I can, you know, do the things that kind of get you a bit further perhaps than just turning up. But then with photography, it's a whole new game. It's a whole new service. And so it was like a real learned behavior that I had to kind of embody.

So yeah, it prepped me for making that big decision and it gave you the confidence as well. You're working with other people. I am to this day incredibly good friends with a girl that I met on that course. We, we go out all the time, do some like darkroom stuff together. So that's been a really good outcome as well.

I started working as a professional photographer just before lockdown. I graduated the London School and I started, I turned my basement bedroom into half, it was a very, very blessed, it was a very big bedroom and it had half of the room that I put my lights and, invited people to come and have headshots in, in this sort of makeshift studio.

Anya: And, and then, so I was working before that. I also shot a wedding just before lockdown. And so I kind of started getting into it and obviously that will happen so everyone has to stay inside. Um, but I would say, uh, barely two years ago now, I quit my full time job, so I was no longer working as a full time employee, so I had no contract that, attached me to another company, um, but I was able, as I said, my business encompassed the, uh, consulting, project management stuff that I did, so I could do both within the same kind of box.

And so that was when I quit. It was a very scary moment. I talked to a lot of people about that, the confidence that I gained at the school definitely, aided me there. but I was, the last place I worked, I was surrounded by really, really wonderful people who, um, would say contributed to the confidence that just just made me see how it was possible to start your own business, to be a freelancer, to, you know, how do you do this part of Texas?

What would you do there? All the questions I didn't know, got answered by this really, really tight knit group of people that I knew. from working with them. And so I was very lucky because that was probably an essential segment for me to make the jump. Um, I was also just very dissatisfied with my job.

I had great people that I worked with, but the work was again, quite corporate, quite,

Joan: Soul sucking.

Anya: oh gosh, just exhausting. And it would just drain all the good energy out of you. And you'd go home annoyed and irritable, and that would pass on to your friends and your family. And you just don't, I don't like that person.

And so it was much about doing something that I love to be fulfilled as well as not be a slave to the system and to feel like I enjoy what I'm doing. And that, , to me, that felt like I needed more autonomy with who I worked with and what, the type of work and the variety of work. So, there was so, there's so, it's really nice to talk about this actually.

It's really, it's really hard to summarize. There's so many things that feed into it.

Joan: Yes. Cause it sounds like you wanted to go out on your own for a while. What do you think held you back?

Anya: Certainly the, the steps that you need to take were not necessarily known to me, I would say. So it wasn't like I had freelancers surrounding me and I knew what to do and I wasn't doing it. I would say that I just didn't know very much about starting a business, going off on your own. And, and so that was a huge, I would say, initiative that I took to educate myself on.

Um, so that held me back because I didn't actually know the steps I needed to take and I just thought it was something that I wasn't going to do. It wasn't really, you know, my path or whatever. Um,

Joan: A good point because you're surrounded during the day if you're working nine to five with, with colleagues who for the most part, aren't running side businesses, they're, they're used to being an employee. And if you're not surrounded by that in your friend circle either, it's like, where do you even start?

Right.

Anya: yeah, exactly. And it's, it's, I've just remembered something. I, there was a person that I worked with at. The company where I was doing my studying at the same time and I was saying, yeah, I'm doing this. I'm doing this course. It's great. I feel very like creative and fulfilled. It's fulfilling like a need that I wasn't doing before.

Joan: Then I learned that this person was doing some blogging on the side and some of this on the side and I was like, wow, you do that as well as work. And so all of these like conversations that were sprouting out of me taking this course were probably contributing and adding to the confidence that I then needed to make a jump. There's people out there doing what I'm doing.

Anya: Exactly. I'm not an alien. Yeah,

Joan: Yeah. And if, and if he can do it, if she can do it, so can I.

Anya: absolutely. I would say that, um, the people thing probably does, did hold me back to some degree. I think I had certain people around me who were perhaps prompting me to take the easy option, and, you know, go for security and consistency and predictability, nothing too disruptive or nothing that's going to rock the boat too much.

There are a few people that were just You know, they weren't exactly egging me on to do something difficult. was, it was more of a, why would you, you know, disrupt your current, um, situation? It's working, you're good at your job, blah, blah, blah. 

Joan: Because it's my life and I hate it?

Anya: Exactly, right? Do I have to scream it out loud? but you know, the people that kind of said, you know, you can just do it for fun. Why not? Like it, I wouldn't say that anyone kind of deliberately tried to hold me back. I don't think it was something as. As cynical as that, but there was, there was lack of encouragement from some people, which probably did.

I, I'm very influenced by the people I love. And, so comments like that go a long way. and so, yeah, it, it was, it was probably a, a part of that as well. and I, I'm, I'm a project manager. I, I look forward, I like, understanding to some degree how something might roll out. And I, yeah, I couldn't see it succeeding, I suppose, for a while.

So that's probably

Joan: Yeah. Because it's one thing to be on holidays in Chile and you've got this idea and you're fired up and then you get home. Was there ever a point where reality hit and it's what am I doing?

Anya: I mean,

Joan: really what I should be upending my life over?

Anya: Multiple times I had that feeling. Once was, uh, when I got back and the money that I had left after my trip, I spent on my, on my cameras and my tuition. And, I mean, it was, it was an expense for sure, and that was going to be my, my buffer when I came back to then continue working or something. And so I spent it all on essentially an investment, cameras and, uh, tuition.

And I didn't, I did get a job fairly quickly. Actually, I was very, very fortunate. I got a great job with a great company, great charity. One that enabled me to study. Um, but before that happened and whilst I was interviewing, I remember feeling very, very, uh, just flustered and I've just spent all this money on this.

I'm booked on to do that, but I need money to be able to afford the next segment of payment. I don't have a place to live. Um, I was like staying at my sister's house and at my brother's house and my friend's house in London and like one week there, one week there. It was very, very chaotic. It's almost like backpacking again.

So yeah, it's a big scary moment. Um,

Joan: Is there one customer or gig or situation early on that stands out that was particularly fun or exciting or it's like, oh my God, I'm actually doing this.

Anya: Yes, I'm going to say my first wedding that I did because it was just, you know, like on a different day, you might have said no, but for some reason that day I was like, I've never shot a wedding before. Sure. I can do it. I can definitely do it. So it was a really, really small wedding, thankfully. So only about 30 odd people. Um, it was in North London and I said, I will be yours for 300 (pounds) for the whole day. I was like, I'll, I'll shoot the photos. I, for some reason, I just, I was just in a saying yes mood, I said I would do the video as well. So I did a video and photography in one day, which I will never do again. uh, a) because it's mental to do both, but also because the video was atrocious and I never want to see it again.

I'm not a videographer, by the way, for those listening, I'm not a videographer, so don't ask. and it was, it was chaos. It was absolute chaos. And I remember going to the hotel in North London as the pre shoot for the church. Um,so I was with them from, I don't know, 10 AM to 10 PM. It was a really long day.

As most weddings are. And my heart was racing out of my chest and suddenly I was hit with lots of doubt and, and know, what if, what if this is a complete mess? What if I just suddenly forget how to use my cameras? What if they fail me? What if they break? Like, all those horrible thoughts that actually are still very much apparent for any job I get, really.

I think the photographer's anxiety is really real. but anyway, I remember just being like, what am I doing? I, I, you know, I don't know if I can do this, and then it just, it's amazing how it just flows, and it just felt really right, I, I love doing it, so it, you know, you suddenly stop thinking about what could happen and you start doing it, and it's a really, the focus. Focus, yeah, good word.

Joan: Pardon, pardon the pun.

Anya: Exactly, exactly, very accidental. It's impossible to think about anything else because all you can think and see is the lens and the people and the subjects.

So it's very easy just to get into it and suddenly four, five hours past at a time, you change cameras, you change lenses, you move around. And, just, it just worked. And I remember leaving and I rang my mom and I was like, I could literally do this. I could do this full time. Yes, I got paid peanuts. And yes, I have loads of editing to do that'll take me probably two weeks, but I can, I think I could do this.

And I remember being very excited. exhausted and overjoyed and really, like, just quite amazed that it had gone well, it happened, and yeah, it is a very, very good feeling.

Joan: Oh, that's, that's awesome, Anya. So you're, you still find that there's a little bit of that anxiety before every job?

Anya: I think, yes, but obviously not to the same element of degree. I, I now, I meet every couple that I photograph for a wedding so that there isn't that kind of unknown. So the, the knowing who they are just, It raises that quite a lot and obviously just having better equipment.

I've upgraded since my first days and so that helps as well.

Joan: You've got so many more tools in your toolbox now as a photographer than you did for that first wedding. Tricks of the trade, experiences, and as you continue to do that, that confidence builds.

And yes, you might come up and will come against new challenges, but you've got enough of a background. That it's fine. We'll, we'll just deal with it. We'll figure it out. But on the business side of things, because this was new for you, what are some of the things, if any, that you were, say, not prepared for or didn't anticipate about running a business?

Anya: Well, I, everything was new from, you know, writing contracts to, advertising myself. Actually, that's probably the hardest part. Yeah, the, the advertising and, and the selling yourself and the asking for work. I, I, I definitely, it's not my strong point. And, definitely been talked down, um, with my rates quite a lot.

In, in, you know, being in a position where I needed support to work, I've been talked down a lot. Um, which is just bonkers because, you know, there's so few jobs that you, are like acutely aware of what someone earns and then you like negotiate, especially in the UK. Anyway, it's not, it's not a done thing, but for some reason people think it's okay to, um, ask photographers if they can charge less, and other artists as well, other artists. I definitely struggled with that for sure. didn't realize that people don't stick to their words. and a lot of people pull out at the last minute. There's lots of rejigging, um, People, um, break up before they get married. I didn't know that. that has happened. That's happened a few times.

Joan: Wow.

Anya: Yeah.

There are also just some very, um, picky people in the world. And, even though they acquired you and your, and your skillset and your editing style, um, reruns and the re dos and the, and the, can you do this? And can you do that? They add up and. I certainly in my first year was very much a yes person and just said yes to everything.

So yeah, you just, those sorts of things like they chip away at you want to be and you work out what you're willing to tolerate and account for. So lots, lots of learning curves.

Joan: Do you have people that you went through that course with either teachers or your peers there that you've had the ability to stay connected with and and, and talk about some of these things that come up

Joan: Network is so important because there may be people in your life that you're like super close to, but they really don't get some of the challenge that you're facing as a photographer. when you're in the middle of something with a wedding or whatever.

So to be able to have conversations and say, you know, how did you handle this when this happened? Because all those things that you mentioned happened to other people, happened to other, artists and in that, in that situation. So it's like, how do you, handle that? Oh, you get a, down payment, for example, you don't call it a deposit because that sounds refundable.

But if I'm setting aside this date six months down the road, I'm saying no to other people. That type of thing, like the whole business side of it. So those, mentors and people that are in it and doing it successfully, um, are so important.

Anya: Absolutely.

Joan: What's the best way for our listeners to connect with you, Anya?

Anya: Ooh, well. I am going through a bit of a rebrand, a bit of a refresh at the moment. it will be my old website, but, um, I have a website. It is lightorangephotography.com. And I, my email is Anya at light orange photography, so you can contact me there. Also have an Instagram account, light orange photography, all my contact details are on there, on my website.

Yeah, that's probably the best way. I'll reply, I promise.

Joan: Fabulous. We'll make sure those links are in the show notes.

Anya: Oh, great. Great.

Joan: So what's your best tip to inspire others to start or grow their side hustle dream?

Anya: It's never as difficult as you think it's going to be and it's, it's way more exciting than it is difficult. Don't tell everyone your plans.

Joan: Be very selective. Be very selective who you share that with, right?

Anya: Exactly. It's very fun.

Joan: Well, thank you so much, Anya, for sharing your story. Very inspirational of how you can really turn your life around. It just takes that, that decision. And thank you so much for being today's Side Hustle Hero.

Anya: Oh, thank you. Well, I'm honoured. I'm so happy to be here. This has been really, it's been nice to talk about it. I don't think I have in, in such isolation before. So thank you.